Nov 27 2009 41
This was my 2 cents. Feel free to leave your opinion.
Written by Janko in Internet, tagged under blogging
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indeed 27 Nov 2009 #
GREAT ARTICLE!!!!!
Carlos 27 Nov 2009 #
I kinda like list posts. Ok.. some blogs really exagerate, but its a good way to organize information, both the content and visually... this was my 1 cent
Janko 27 Nov 2009 #
Carlos: I agree that lists are useful for organizing content - your own content. However, many list posts are just that - seamless lists that points to other sources. If there is a bunch of images, even better
Paul Campbell 27 Nov 2009 #
Totally agreed. We know how to use Google - If you're gonna write a blog, use it to create some content!
Sid 27 Nov 2009 #
Yes, you can handle only so much "top 10 jQuery plugins that will save the planet" posts.
Janko: Yeah, I understand your point of course. The are to many websites/blogs that all they do is lists. It's easy to create content like that, just look up on delicious for some tags, or google and some print screens and voilá. Guaranteed visits and retweets, etc... Smashing Magazine for example.. it's all they do.... But.. once in a while you have a great list of good resources.
cancel bubble 27 Nov 2009 #
Here's an interesting post you might be interested in: Smashing Magazine Killed The Community (Or Maybe It Was Me) www.drawar.com/.../
Sverri 27 Nov 2009 #
Yeah, I've lost count of how many RSS feeds I've done away with for this reason.
Alex Ho 27 Nov 2009 #
I'm not a fan of list post. I never read every article or post listed. When i need to find information, i'd rather google it. List post is kinda "old paper phonebook". You will never use that old way anymore.
Carlos: You are right about that, every once in a while it's good to see some new resources. What really annoys me is that 8/10 tweets in my twhirl begin with a number. @cancel bubble: I read that article, and it is a very good read. And although I agree with the most of it, I think it is too easy to blame Smashing Magazine only. As an author on SM I know there are a lot of non-list articles that provide really useful information. Shouldn't copycats be blamed as well? I know that people behind SM are completely aware of this. Take this for an example. Just a couple of days after "The death of the blog post article" on SM (www.smashingmagazine.com/.../) we got first roundups on the same subject, but with no value. Intention of the article on Smashing Magazine was to push the boundaries while this roundup has almost no value. Many people wanted to be another SM, now everyone will want to be another Jason Santa Maria? Sverri: I know, I was cleaning my google reader this morning and unsubscribed from many blogs. This is one of the reasons why I posted this today.
Gerhard 27 Nov 2009 #
A non-remarkable reply to this remarkable post! In other words: great post
Raspo 28 Nov 2009 #
every once in a while it's good to see some new resources. What really annoys me is that 8/10 tweets in my twhirl begin with a number. +1000 Great post
jne 28 Nov 2009 #
Epic.
Daniel 28 Nov 2009 #
Great !!! ... wassssssssssssssup sssssssup !! Sls,
Nic Rosental 28 Nov 2009 #
I agree about 90%. There are some lists that aren't just a collection of links and actually provide some pretty cool content; yet the format has been so used and abused that it's hard to find those good ones among the clutter.
Dmitry 28 Nov 2009 #
Regarding the 'blogazine' thing: we won't see many blogs adopt this because of two reasons: 1) It takes a lot of work to do (even more work than magazines for print because web design needs to be sliced and coded, not just laid out in a WYSIWYG) and 2) because each article has to actually have the content as well, which probably isn't a list. List posts on the other hand are very suited to bloggers who have nothing to say because you don't have to produce the content -- you collate other people's work -- and you don't even have to think about how you'll structure this content -- you just follow the framework of a list. Do list posts have any value? Yes, but unfortunately it's lost in todays posts. What's the value? The filter. The writer should be acting as a filter that researches the topic, looks through all the multitude of things they're writing about, and then filters it down to the very few best ones. In this way you'll deliver only so much that the reader can digest and you'll be doing the work of picking the best ones for your readers -- your time and expertise will produce this value. But this is unfortunately thrown out the window today when we commonly see list posts with 50+ or even 100+ items in them. It's just too much. There's a reason why reports have 1 page executive summaries at the front. The list post should be an executive summary, not the 100 page report. Otherwise you're just posting galleries or directories, in which case you really aren't a blog but a gallery site or the yellow pages.
Janko 28 Nov 2009 #
Dmitry: Thanks for the comment! I agree that list posts (well, some of them) have value. Every once in while I find something worth bookmarking. But 50+ or 100+ lists are exactly the type of articles I was thinking about. Meaningless lists with just a title and screenshot, without any personal insight of an author. Excellent points about list posts. I mentioned "20 blogs with unique post design" in that context. It was just another "hot" topic for lists and I was wondering who will be the first to make roundup.
Slobodan Kustrimovic 29 Nov 2009 #
hmm... I'm gonna write now "Zero things i like about posts with no content" I think these (zero things) posts will become a hot topic.
www.jankoatwarpspeed.com/.../...s-in-May-2008.aspx Hmm... what's this then (ko ce koga ako ne svoj svoga... )
Janko 29 Nov 2009 #
Slobodan: It is indeed a list post. I stopped publishing them once I discovered they don't bring any value to my blog. That is one of the reasons why I think they (often) don't have any value. I don't see "zero things" as an upcoming trend. You can, of course, write about posts without content. Whatever rocks your world.
Well in my opinion it really depends on the person reading. I like list posts for example, i like to see what other people think it's good and that's how i found out about cool jquery plugins, cool wordpress stuff, got inspired for new tuts, learned about new blogs on webdev... And looking at the stats from my blog, people love lists (i always make a new daily pageviews record with the best webdev tutorials and articles for a specific month list). I was just joking about the zero things post
Slobodan: Of course! Many people like list posts. But, as I said earlier, I am really tired of seeing n+ lists overwhelming my rss reader and twhirl. Lists should be informative, they should recommend me various resources and explain WHY are they included. I always check out that kind of lists.
Marco 30 Nov 2009 #
Haha - that made me laugh! I have to admit that I did those list posts too in the past, but try to do less of them. But I think that there are 2 kind of list posts: One that sucks, others that don't. Sucky ones: - 1000 best Photoshop tutorials - 999 great Photoshop Textures Non-sucky ones: - 8 different ways to beautifully style your lists (self-promotion ;) ) - Inspirational logo's from .... The sucky ones are just the "roundups" - the non-sucky ones do have more investigation work etc.
Maneet Puri 30 Nov 2009 #
I totally agree with Carlos here. List posts are great way to present information in an organized manner. Going by the basic rule that "web users don't read but scan through web pages" it is a smart way to present your content. Moreover, the numeric element works as an instant attention grabber. Probably the quantified element works better than subjective headlines...
Janko 30 Nov 2009 #
Marco: I completely understand, I also tend not to roundup anything. And yeah, roundups simply suck. When I say list post, I think of roundups, mainly. The other type of lists are normal posts with real content and enumeration is used just for easier organizing. I'm even wondering should we call them lists-post. Maneet: Yes, I agree with you. But I think we should make a difference between list and enumeration. Adding numbers to headings is just, as you said, attention grabber. But there is content that will work even without numbers. Plain lists are, on the other hand, just a bunch of links, usually with screenshots. That's a big difference I think.
Website laten maken 01 Dec 2009 #
Haha funny post! I sometimes like them, depends on what they're about. But most of the time they're all the same. Repeating the same and same websites again...
Freddy Gonzalez 01 Dec 2009 #
Funny thing. I found and subscribed to your site because of a jquery list post. I saw your youtube layout switcher and decided to subscribe.
Janko 01 Dec 2009 #
@website laten maken: that's probably one of the main reasons for disliking them - Every morning I feel as if I woke up in "groundhog day". Same stories all over again. Freddy: Well, nice to hear that Of course, I also found some valuable articles/sites/inspiration through list posts. You find something useful and you see it over and over again. For weeks and even months.
Rudy 02 Dec 2009 #
I still not understand why you do that...
Maneet Puri 02 Dec 2009 #
Janko: There you have it dude! Its a big difference.. I guess these lists are the best way out for people who don't have the will or probably skills to come up with compelling titles. But then again, there is absolutely no use having a compelling headline if you dont have great content beneath it. Catchy headlines may attract readers but ultimately the content is what makes them stay!
Probably 09 Dec 2009 #
Funny you write this post, I recently wrote a rant about top "insert number here" Firefox addons lists and how they need to be stopped. In all honesty, top numbered lists are just cheap ways of getting StumbleUpon traffic. Here's my post: probablysucks.com/.../
KreCi 09 Dec 2009 #
Not sure if it is only me but I can not see the post... I see only title and comments... :/
Ok... never mind... I've got it...
turisuna 11 Dec 2009 #
Good idea, without write anything you have invited people to give a comment ;) I'm interested with some ideas in the comments, but for me the list posts help me to understand the content, but I prefer to read simple lists, I don't like to read long lists that seem have same meaning.
Herra Hvitur 12 Dec 2009 #
But then how about list articles about the 19 best list articles? I guess few of us here would be interrested..
David 30 Dec 2009 #
This is really confusing, because I just read your post "13 helpful Firefox add-ons for designers and developers " which is considered a list post.
Janko 30 Dec 2009 #
David: if you read the comments you'll see what that list is doing there.
Raz 30 Dec 2009 #
I use to like them, until I realized one day by calculating how much time I was wasting on them. In my personal experience they became like a drug and I allowed them to mess with my flow. I stopped doing that and I managed to do so by deleting the delicious widget from my igoogle. I switched to google reader combined with feed burner and I control the feeds (my list only has people with original content) Notice how I described a challenge and not really complained. The reality is that like everything else that I now understand about life, they had their purpose and I think a lot of positive experiences as well came out of that time. I don't really like them or hate them, I think I just outgrew them. The challenge now (and not related to the lists) is that I am beginning notice how I feel different about a lot of information. I filter it more by default and it becomes harder and harder to find good stuff (again here just for me). I could be going jingle bells in my head, or content is deteriorating (but more so even almost like bloggers are beginning to sound like those only people I can't stand when I hear them read from that paper with superiority and that laughter of .... I can stop at will). Another option is that it's really happening. I should be OK, I still have people I respect that flood my reader. The third is with too much ego yet possible, I did evolve, in which case if you haven't yet you are going to as well. That is where I stand. This particular blog I just discovered hence nothing that I spoke of has to do with here now. Here it feels cosy for some reason, maybe the URL, maybe the colors, more than likely content from what I can tell, as I am still figuring out the readers. Sometimes they also can be a great reason to leave. Not today though! Happy New Year Janko and to all of you!
Draino 03 Feb 2010 #
Janko, I can appreciate your point about list posts, using the list approach essentially constrains the flow of the article and limits the opportunity for creativity or a more innovative approach. Notwithstanding this there are so many of these type of posts because, in a nutshell, they work. Lists appeal to some part of our brain and drag readers to the article. Look at ezinearticles, many of their most read articles are lists with numbers in the title.... the three best .... five things you should know about ... and the approach goes on. Lists also are easy to digest and in this age of information overload we are all looking for information that is quick to assimilate and apply. A list post holds out the promise of structure and a number of related items of information. Looks like they will be here to stay for a while. The only major downside I can see is when we get list escalation, 5 points probably represent five valuable points but the 245 best .... I agree what is the worth of that sort of data.
Jason 15 Feb 2010 #
lol thats hilarious well you summed it up very quickly, and too the point! Who says you need a lot of content to get your point across, you summed it up quickly, and effectively, and I agree!
SEnuke 19 Feb 2010 #
I always revert back to list posting when i cant think of anything to blog about.. Had some amazing traffic from Digg... I guess Diggers love lists!